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  1. #1
    Member Help2Go Moderator whoozhe's Avatar
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    Default Illegal Downloads and the RIAA

    Now here may be a subject that will, hopefully, cause some discussion.
    What are your thoughts on P2P programs and in particular claims that illegal downloads are costing companies sales.
    I do not agree with illegal downloads but the tactics and misleading information pushed by RIAA (Record Industry Association Of America) has little to do with drop in CD sales
    The main reasons for the alleged drop in sales is the mass amount of junk released, inflated prices and the fact that the RIAA is really only a lobby group for a handful of record companies that do not represent the broader industry.
    Rolling Stone magazine's latest top 500 Albums of all time hardly mentions any made since 1980. Nirvana, Springsteen, U2 and Michael Jackson being the few who made the top 30.
    http://www.rollingstone.com/features...n.asp?pid=2164.
    Claim that pirating is hurting artists is misleading.
    Janis Ian has made 20 albums over her career and has not received one penny in royalties even after selling millions of records/CDs.
    http://www.janisian.com/articles.html
    When so called royalties are paid out Record companies deduct all costs including production, manufacturing and distribution. In most cases the royalties end up a debit to be paid to the company. They take very few financial risks.
    The figures bandied around by both the music industries are base on a supposition. ie if 1 million illegal copies are used we then loose out on 1 million sales.
    What is never taken into account is the the majority of those 1 million would never have bought the product to start with owing to cost and real interest.
    What the record companies are really scared of is losing their total control over the entire industry. They want to continue to dictate what will be heard by the public.
    This is not a new issue for the record companies.
    Way back publishing houses were up in arms over Pianola scrolls citing it would destroy the music sheet printing business.
    When radio began these same companies that now made records argued it would ruin them. They used the Payola scandal of the late 50's to take control over R & R from independent companies.
    When tape recorders came onto the market they did everything possible to prevent it from happening. I might add that during that period 60-80's the record industry recorded their highest sales ever.
    More recently Digital Tape was all but killed off by the same tired arguments put up over CD copying.
    The cycle is starting again as it did in the past with R & R. New exiting music is not coming from the major recording companies but the small independent ones that are embracing the net.
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  2. #2
    Administrator Help2Go Administrator Canuck's Avatar
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    I have to agree with you Kevin. I personally do not feel too guilty downloading the music I like ... that being said, I only download music that I grew up with and older stuff 30+ years old, not this modern stuff. I don't feel guilty, since over my lifetime I have probably purchased 100's if not thousands dollars on 45's, a few 78's, LP's, tapes (including the dreaded 8 track) and of course cd's. Apart from Cds, pretty well all of my music has been worn, broken, not returned etc. etc. So I have payed a pretty good share of royalties (for most of the music I download) over my life. If, and it's a big if, I were guaranteed that for a nominal fee for downloading a song, that money would see it's way to the artist (or now more & more their estates) I would gladly pay. I think of artists like Little Richard that got nothing for their compositions, while others (artists but mainly record companies) made big bucks. A distant relative of mine, Percy Faith made little or nothing on his recordings but made his living from live performances.

  3. #3
    Member Shinobi's Avatar
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    It's an interesting topic where I can both sides of the argument. Personally there are one or two bands that I really like and I will always go out and buy their CD's. But I tend to download stuff that I would never in a million years of considered going out and buying, mainly more obscure stuff (which is often hard to come by in stores anyhow) and I feel fine about this.

    The thing is if your a teen kid with limited funds and you know you that a cd you want is right there to download.....it must be very hard to resist the temptation and this is the problem that the record industry has.

    I don't fear too much for the industry....big industry always has to adapt to meet the challenges of new technology, and I'm sure they will.

    My prediction for the future is that within say 10-15 years high speed internet will be as common as the phone in every home and all music will be downloaded legaly at vastly reduced costs. The record companies will eventually have to say if you cant beat em, join em.

  4. #4
    Member galena1's Avatar
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    An article was published in the UK press several months ago re Roxios purchase of Napster, and the proposed relaunch this Christmas, in the USA only, of Napster with music tracks to purchase from the new site.
    The figure being bandied about in the article was 90cents a track. Well, if an average album is, say, 20 tracks that is 18$. The cost of cds is already considerably less in the USA than here in the UK. When you consider that the buyer has to supply a cd, pay for online time, have the necessary software etc this hardly seems like a bargain to me. I have little taste for a lot of modern music and, yes folks it's Christmas time again so lets produce yet another 'oldies' compilation of greatest hits cd and retail it at £14.99 here in the UK. I know little about modern cd production but I imagine there is precious little work involved in gathering existing tracks and pressing? them onto a cd for distribution. I appreciate that there has to be investment in the necessary equipment to make the downloads available, this will no doubt be the excuse used to justify the cost per track. The old excuse of having to recoup R+D costs making cds so expensive is wearing a little thin by now. Personally I won't be downloading music from Napster or any similar site until the prices are at a sensible level and somehow I dont think that wil be in the near future.
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  5. #5
    Osc
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    Administrator Help2Go Administrator Osc's Avatar
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    I used to try Kazaa, Napster, etc., mainly because of the high prices of CDs. I didn't feel it was justified to pay $16 (in the US) for a CD which had only 1 or 2 songs I liked.

    I recently got an iPod and started using iTunes for Windows. It was the service I was waiting for -- I bought the songs I wanted, for 99 cents a pop, and albums are $9.99. I haven't bought any albums yet, because as whoozhe said, nothing of any interest to me has come out in the past decade or so. I like the music of the 50s-80s, and that's about it.

    Concerning CDs, it galls me that they try to sell a CD for so much money. For instance, I can go out and buy the "Chicago" movie soundtrack CD for $15.99. OR, I could get all of the songs, PLUS the movie, PLUS deleted scenes and director commentary, PLUS songs not released in the movie, etc., on a DVD for $17.99 at my local retailer.

    Why can the motion picture industry sell DVDs for so little, while CDs, which have comparitively little content, sell for so much?

    Anyway, I highly recommend iTunes.

  6. #6
    Member galena1's Avatar
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    Just plain greedy, I guess :x Many lesser known musicians are now producing and distributing their own cds.
    I know everything about nothing, nothing about everything and precious little about the bit in between.
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  7. #7
    Member Help2Go Moderator Mich's Avatar
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    My opinions are a little odd since I'm a Canadian. Here there is no RIAA etc. to deal with. Also, in Canada we pay an added hidden little cost when we purchase a cd that allowes us to share it with our friends by copying etc. As long as when/if confronted the source cd can be located.

    I think the RIAA are completely going about it the wrong way and really should be jumping on the situation and offering a low priced internet solution. There was an article awhile ago talking about how even if they manage to get all the USA under control there is still Canada, we have more computers with broadband connections and their laws don't touch us. All the transferring etc. would then be done from here. They are charging people by downloading files from them and then making sure that file is indeed copywritten etc. People aren't getting in trouble for downloading, just for allowing people to download from them. Basically they are fighting a losing battle and no matter how many people scream this at them they still can't comprehend the situation.

    Thats my 2 cents worth. Anyone feel free to correct me if I said anything wrong. I'm going by memory at the moment
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  8. #8
    Member mart44's Avatar
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    I can only say 'ditto' to all that has been said already. The the RIAA are fighting a losing battle and will have to come to terms with people downloading music from the Net. The thing they should be doing is offering reasonably priced music for download.

    I rather think though, that even if tracks were 90 cents a download, a great many people might still search out free sources of music rather than pay anything at all. I can't see any organisation being able to stop this. The best that can be hoped for is that honest citizens like ourselves would be willing to contribute something towards keeping the music industry afloat and paying the artistes.

    What might happen is that a percentage of money paid for legitimate downloads would go toward subsidising the losses incurred by those who would still download their music for nothing.

  9. #9
    Osc
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    Administrator Help2Go Administrator Osc's Avatar
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    Here's a question -- I've ripped all of my own CDs to MP3. I know that's legal under fair use. But what of family member's CDs? Do the rights transfer from father to son, or husband to wife? Could I legally "use" the music on my father's CDs (most of which collect dust in a closet)?

  10. #10
    Member galena1's Avatar
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    OSC, I DARESAY THIS WILL BE COVERED IN THEsmall print SOMEWHERE :!: NO DOUBT THE BUYING PUBLIC WILL BE THE LOSERS
    I know everything about nothing, nothing about everything and precious little about the bit in between.
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